The Greens are in trouble.Baden-Württemberg's Prime Minister on mistakes in migration policy - and what lessons the party should learn.
“Politics with a sense of proportion”: Winfried Kretschmann (right) with Robert Habeck on November 6th, 2023 in Berlin Photo: dts/imago Kemtron KPT-48 Shale Shaker Screen
Prime Minister, the federal and state governments recently agreed on a migration pact.You have brought forward the CDU-governed states' proposal for asylum procedures in third countries.Do you really believe that this can be humane and effective?
I don't think that's the central point of our agreement.You can already tell from the wording.We have formulated an audit mandate and clearly emphasized that the legal standards of the Geneva Refugee Convention and the European Convention on Human Rights are binding.For me, the main thing is that with our decision we have achieved a broad democratic consensus and taken a very important step towards more order in migration policy.
Will your own people follow you and Habeck at the party conference?
Firstly: This idea is not new, it is already formulated in the traffic light coalition agreement.So the party has already followed suit.Secondly: I myself emphasized that I am skeptical about the implementation because it involves a lot of requirements and is highly complex.Why can it still be worthwhile to open up to this idea?We talk about humanity and order.And if we want more humanity, we have to stop the deaths in the Mediterranean.And we shouldn't close our minds to ideas in such a difficult situation.
75, has been the first and so far only Prime Minister of the Green Party since 2011.He currently governs Baden-Württemberg with a green-black coalition.He no longer wants to run in the next regular state election in 2026.
If the party falls out over this: does it have the potential to catapult the Greens back into the niche?
In my opinion, we have taken a clear course by approving the European unification CEAS and confirmed it with the Migration Package 2.This will now be continued with the decision of the Prime Minister’s Conference.In this respect, I see us on the right track overall.I recently outlined this course again in a joint guest article with Ricarda Lang.
This pragmatism is currently not being rewarded in Hesse.Boris Rhein wants to govern with the SPD.
I have to say: The fact that we are kicked out of the government in Hesse, of all places, with a highly pragmatic regional association is extremely bitter.And that has to wake us up as a party.The course in migration policy is crucial: let off the brakes when it comes to curbing irregular migration.
Some in her party call this isolation.
That's nonsense.Without order, the law of the strongest prevails.Humanity can only exist in order.Asylum means: Anyone who is persecuted can come here.But that also means: Anyone who is not persecuted cannot use the right to asylum, otherwise the right to asylum will be undermined.You don't need the right to asylum if everyone can come and stay as they want.We have to limit irregular migration, otherwise the right to asylum will be undermined.When the Green Youth now talks about isolation, one can only ask: Where do they live?We have just taken in a million Ukrainian refugees; Baden-Württemberg alone has taken in twice as many Ukrainian refugees as France.This is the opposite of isolation.
It is the prerequisite so that those who really need protection can be received, accommodated and integrated.We are in overload.The municipalities are simply overwhelmed.It's not just about accommodation.Of the refugees in 2015, around 60 percent are in work and therefore 40 percent are in the social system.This means that with every wave of refugees there remains a base.It is clear that at some point you will be overloaded.This policy is insight into what is necessary.The right to asylum is an important achievement of civilization.We must and will maintain these.In addition, the federal government is now really opening the corridors for regular immigration.Clearly separating these two is crucial if we want to maintain acceptance for refugees.
Critics say that all the measures that have been decided on do not achieve anything and that this then pays back into the account of the right.
The first thing is to acknowledge the situation.And to do this, my party has to clarify whether it even wants limits.Those who don't want that usually say that you are serving right-wing narratives.Others say it doesn't help.
I think there are many building blocks that bring something together.It is true that there is no single lever and that we can only solve the big questions at a European level, which is why the CEAS reform of the European asylum system is so central.But in this difficult situation we must be prepared to pull even small levers.For example, the payment card instead of cash.This is not a departure from humanity.But we reduce the incentive for irregular migration because it limits the ability of asylum seekers to remit money back to their home countries.If we do nothing on this issue, then the impression will arise that the state is incapable of acting.This is the most dangerous message ever!This drives people to the right.
Your party's poll numbers are declining nationally and in Baden-Württemberg.Do voters see the Greens as a fair-weather party that will no longer be voted for when things get serious?
You might think so, but it's amazing;because we as a party have achieved enormous things in the last few months: when you see the force with which the Foreign Minister acted in the Ukraine crisis - as a party that emerged from the peace movement - and how Robert Habeck bought gas and LNG in Qatar during the energy crisis -built terminals.Both of them acted very decisively and clearly, and we got through the winter well.This contradicts this theory.But it still seems that way.
How can your party regain trust?
We must draw lessons from the last few months and show that we can pursue politics with a sense of proportion and pragmatism - especially when it comes to the migration issue.And when it comes to climate policy, we have to be clear in our goals but open in our paths.It's no use saying: But science tells us that this is very urgent.
Why not?Is this already too complex for people?
The shirt is closer to people than the skirt, that's evolutionary conditioning.People are less afraid of the next flood disaster than they are of financing the next heating system.That's why the sentence “We have to take people with us” is not just an empty phrase.According to Hannah Arendt, power arises when people gather around an idea and act.If people disperse again, then you will lose power.When popular approval decreases, criticism comes from all corners and things become difficult.
A growing part of society has been rallying around the green idea since 2018 - now parts of it are gone again.What is the new idea that attracts these people?
At the moment, other topics are understandably dominating: migration, inflation, wars.There is a deep uncertainty that reaches deep into the middle and triggers fears of loss: companies that ask themselves whether they can still be successful on the global market under these conditions.Families who are worried about not finding affordable housing.Families who suddenly can no longer afford to build.Instead of confidence in advancement, it is more fear of decline that dominates the social climate.
What exactly set the Greens back?
I'll start the other way around: We were always strong when we as a party clearly expected something from ourselves - from the Kosovo war to the coal compromise.This has been reversed with the heating law.At the beginning, many people had the feeling that decisions were being made over us.You then lose trust.You can see this in the attributions of competence, even in climate policy.Our rise is thanks to a leadership duo...
… Annalena Baerbock and Robert Habeck …
... which appeared differently than its predecessors, who argued publicly on a weekly basis.They have taken a new course: We are an alliance party that is looking for majorities beyond our own core electorate.This course has made us strong.But perhaps it also led to some of the necessary humility being lost.
Should we have listened more to the people when it came to the Building Energy Act?
Yes.This has now reached everyone.Due to the nature of things, we Greens often also have a moment of great faith in the state.But we live in a social market economy.No government concept can be as innovative as a market in which thousands of people have ideas.You need price signals to steer that.It's about us developing a replicable model of climate-friendly prosperity and successful sustainable business that other countries adopt because they see that it works.
Because it's true.Even with the most radical climate policy in Baden-Württemberg, I would not be able to stop the global phenomenon of climate change.We have to show that this can ensure prosperity.This has faded too much into the background.The former Bosch boss once said: “We can make structural changes, but not structural breaks.”In the end, it doesn't matter whether it takes a year or two longer or shorter for us.
You have been very reserved in supporting Economics Minister Habeck in the heating dispute.
The decisive factor was the correction he made, the binding heat planning of the municipalities: We initiated this very early on in Baden-Württemberg.It is not the case that we do not expect regulatory policy from the people in Baden-Württemberg.In the first step, we introduced a photovoltaic requirement for non-residential buildings and in the second step for new residential buildings and for existing buildings with basic roof renovations.There was only a slight grumbling, but no protest, because it is a clearly defined intervention with manageable costs.Since then we have had a steep increase in photovoltaics.
The green saying of late is that so much has been done in such a short time, we have to – quote Habeck – “let it sink in”.Is that just a euphemism for surrender?
I don't see it that way.Politics is the art of the possible.So it's very wise to acknowledge that.I think we're obviously getting on people's nerves at the moment.People feel like we tell them how to heat, how to move, how to eat, and finally we even tell them how they can and can't talk.
That is the narrative of the Green opponents.
Yes, and that's just annoying to people.That's why I completely agree with Robert Habeck: We have now introduced important things in terms of climate policy, and what is crucial is that we don't get bogged down in the small details, but rather tackle the things vigorously that really make a difference.Whether we fly within Germany or not is simply irrelevant in terms of size.We have to build wind turbines, we have to put photovoltaics on roofs, we have to quickly phase out coal-fired power, and we have to massively advance green technology and make production more resource and energy efficient.Like what we're doing with the cement industry.But we don't have to ask whether the fire engines are climate-neutral, because they only drive around when they have to be used - and that doesn't play a role in the overall billing.People have enough to do with all sorts of things that come at them.
We need more morality, but for many people moral emissions also have a counterproductive effect.Or do we need less morality, but even less living morality than we are currently practicing when our livelihoods are being destroyed will also be difficult?
We have the necessary morality and that simply means: We have no right to destroy this planet, because we did not make it ourselves, and it is also morally undisputed that we must not leave our children a worse world than we found it .That's enough moral foundation.We can really save ourselves the debates.
What we need is more pragmatism, more implementation, more ecological market economy, more innovation and, above all, more speed.We wouldn't have a problem at all if we didn't have to be so fast.The change has long since begun.The only problem is speed: in 20 years we have to fix what humanity did in 250 years, first unconsciously and then consciously.We have now made some very important adjustments.For example, with the “Onshore Wind Act”, which declares the expansion of renewable energy sources to be of paramount public interest.The expansion of wind power towers over other competing interests that have to take a back seat.That's what matters.
This is the Kretschmann/Habeck speaking strategy of 'We are on the right track'.At your recent transformation congress, history professor Hedwig Richter accused you of “simulating normality”.Climate activists demand that we have to say how bad things really are.
You don't make sensible decisions when you're panicking.People have atavistic traits within them; you only have to look at Hamas or Russia.That's how humanity is, and that's why you're always in battle and in crisis mode.Adenauer already said: Politics is always in need.But you cannot build a good future on fear, only on confidence.
What is the source of your confidence at the moment?
For example, the fact that the sun gives us as much energy in an hour as humanity needs in a year.This means that if we go into a solar energy economy now, we are definitely not doing anything wrong.We'll just do that now, as quickly as we can without disruption.We simply need craftsmen, to put it bluntly, to screw the things onto the roofs.
The Greens used to be responsible for apocalypse rhetoric and that also seemed to be part of the progressive culture.Today the AfD, CSU, Friedrich Merz and parts of the FDP do this.That's ironic too.
There is no life without irony.Then comes the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine, and we appoint the foreign minister, and she must campaign vigorously for arms deliveries.The fact that a party with pacifist roots comes to power just when a brutal war of aggression is ravaging Europe is not just bitter irony, it is what Hannah Arendt means when she says that miracles can happen in politics.Someone does something you thought they would never do.Things like this create movement and dynamism.These forecasting masters always want to calculate everything in advance, and you just can't do that, for better or for worse.Look, I was a radical left-wing Maoist as a student, and now I'm listed as a conservative Green.That wasn't exactly to be expected.
Critics within the party do not consider this to be a miracle, but rather a story of decline.
That's also the beauty of a democracy: We have to make sure that facts and truths are not lost, but everyone is free to make judgments.
There are currently two rumors in federal politics: The next federal government will definitely be without the Greens.Successful climate policy must be made by others and not by the Greens.
Times are so fast-moving these days when it comes to political moods and shifts, so I would be cautious if I were in the position of those who now think that it's all a mowed mess and that we can now forget about the Greens.We Democrats have a completely different problem than just staring at where we are right now: the rapid rise of right-wing populists, practically all over the world.However, the ray of hope from the Polish election shows that such a rise can also be slowed down and reversed.That's exactly what we should all pay more attention to and, in this sense, treat each other with enough care so that things don't fall on our feet later when the ability to form a coalition among Democrats is required.That could be a good thing when I think about the upcoming elections in the East.That's why I advise: Let's stick to the factual disputes and not look for a "main enemy" among the democratic parties.The main enemy are the forces that are at odds with democracy itself.
If you now look at the drop in approval for the Baden-Württemberg Greens, will a weakening of the famous Kretschmann effect make the search for your successor even more difficult for the party?
I'll finish my reign properly now.
Electing a different Green Prime Minister is something that her coalition partner would not have agreed to do either.
Yes.But I have always said before that I will remain me until the end of the legislative period.Provided I stay healthy and mentally fresh.I'm only halfway through the legislative period, so there's no need to talk about a successor yet.
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It is precisely the moment in which right-wing populism has entered the mainstream and is being performed by the major parties in their own form.No, migration is not the problem!
The increasing total debt is certainly not due to the fact that the schools are lavishly equipped.Or that health care would be pico bello, with nurses paid decently and not overworked.Or that the municipalities have the necessary resources to fulfill their tasks.
But solely on tax breaks for the rich.
"Between 1993 and 2018, wealth of the top 10% and of the middle class (50-90%) has approximately doubled in real terms, while wealth of the bottom half has stagnated and their share in total wealth has nearly halved. Their estimated Gini coefficient based on a combination of EVS, national accounts and rich lists increases from 0.69 in 1993 to 0.74 in 2018." [1]
Where the fuck is the wealth tax?
[1] newforum.org/en/th...uality-in-germany/
“It’s about us developing a copyable model of climate-friendly prosperity and successful sustainable business that other countries can adopt because they see that it works.”We won't do it under that.Adenauer already said: “Let it take effect.” - “Don’t let yourself be deterred…”: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B7qMG6Ifgs
@Mondschaf We can also try it the other way around: give up our prosperity and drive our economy to the wall for climate protection.
It is only doubtful whether any other country will be positively influenced by this and become an imitator.
@Mondschaf join me - “…beings recover…”
@Mondschaf Is that actually self-righteous arrogance or arrogant self-righteousness?Since pride comes before a fall;Maybe the vocational school teacher will live to see that we will learn from those who are now considered “emerging countries”...
@Hugo Liggers.The Helots still took over the shop at some point.
under the service“Helots (ancient Greek εἵλωτες “the conquered, the prisoners”; from ἑλεῖν heléin “seize, seize, take”) were the names given to the members of a social class of people in the state of Lacedaimon (today usually called after its capital Sparta), who were in the state settled, but were not citizens.They were tied to the land and were considered the largest population group of “public slaves.”de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heloten(ps Whereby - the criminal senior student councilor IM Reul must not be missing - to his son “…here from this rock 🪨 - the Spartans threw their wayward ones down! Sorry - that you are not here!” - 🙀🥳🤣 -www.spektrum.de/ma...zt-man-aus/1115668 - evil evil - 👿👿 -
How pleasant to enjoy Wilfried Kretschmann's punny wisdom again.Let's see what sticks in Berlin and among the concerned base.
Somehow it's always the same after Kretschmann interviews: why doesn't the man join the CDU straight away?And if Kretschmann pursues green politics: why have the Greens?If the interview had been conducted with Günther or Wüst, the answers there could have been adopted 1:1.
@Bambus05 Yes, but apparently the method behind it is to give a platform to a deep black reactionary who was briefly painted in green paint.
First he says: "We have formulated an audit mandate and clearly emphasized that the legal standards of the Geneva Refugee Convention and the European Convention on Human Rights are binding."
But then he says: “We have achieved a broad democratic consensus with our decision.”
How can he know that this consensus does not violate the NVC and the ECHR, i.e. is undemocratic, if he still has to check it?
Kretschmann, above all else, that is a lot of self-deception and hypocrisy.
@Bambus05 What is wrong with his answers or close to the CDU?The man stands for pragmatism and that is a (!) basic requirement in politics.I can agree with most of what he says (but I have never voted for the CDU, for example).
@Bommel Pragmatism is always good as long as you don't forget your values compass.The whole thing isn't close to the CDU, it's the CDU.
@Bambus05 Maybe it's just the kind of policy voters want.How else can Mr. K.’s electoral success be explained?Alternatively, you can of course also govern against the wishes of the voters.It doesn't help, but if the values compass is correct again, that also has added value ;-)
“more order in migration policy”
Is that realistic or will the Greens soon catch up with the fact that there are huge problems with other EU states that are doing everything they can to get rid of migrants.In other words: The numbers won't just fall and, above all, they probably won't fall massively.What then?
Is this disorder then?What is proposed then, what do the Greens do then?
Hola - Twilight of the Idols!But.Start in the best Laber-Rhubarb-Timpani-Persetter-Bullar drum soup!Tenor: Everything is correct - I have nothing to blame myself for!“Look, I was a radical left-wing Maoist as a student, and now I'm listed as a conservative Green.That wasn’t exactly to be expected.”Rhubarb nonsense but this about migration plus pandemic emergency law without NONONOTSTANDSNO - Nej tak!taz.de/Die-Gruenen...Freiheit/!5784316/ by Udo Knapp - 😥 -short - With Andreas Rebers “Province is there - where the teachers are among the intellectuals!”& Däh & Still - surprise!PU!What a brazen - even irreverent, flappy one-two punch:Fläddle soup from Germany fresh into your Fläddle face!Gellewelle“Will the weakening of the famous Kretschmann effect make the search for your successor even more difficult for the party?& Dah“I'm going to finish my reign properly now.” Oh dear!©️ Loriot for 💯 💐& Däh - against lese majeste“…you don’t have to talk about a successor right now.” But exactly •Quod erat demonstrandum - which just had to be proven!Gellewelle
Well, meal - I'm afraid of you
@Lowandorder hairdressers go on strike -Everyone wants a Kretschmann look alike.Robert Habeck already has itThat's probably his wind mission.
@Mondschaf Cool.Give it a listen - MMW -“I love a hairdresser but my mother said…” also called an altar boy 🙀🥳www.youtube.com/wa...VybmhhZ2VuIA%3D%3D
@Lowandorder Me too.Hopefully it will really go away soon.
Somehow I'm unsure whether Kretschmann is simply an experienced, clever politician or just has so much charisma that people buy it from him.I think that giving in to the conservative anti-climate campaigns is not the right thing to do, but rather exactly the wrong thing to do.Well, maybe he's right after all?
But Kretschmann is wrong about one thing:"But perhaps it also led to some of the necessary humility being lost."The Greens in the government are the most humble of all, among all the right-wingers and mansplainers in the FDP, SPD, CDU.You make so many compromises.Less humility would be good.
The party would then get even more members who have no financial worries but are not prepared to make a fair contribution.
The main beneficiaries of the achievements of green policy are higher earners and heirs who can direct capital into subsidized investments or abroad, people who profit professionally from the energy transition - often in state employment -, people who own their own home and subsidies for solar systems , heaters and wall boxes for electric cars.
They're smart people, but selfish people with public influence harm everyone else.
Unbelievable, but the battle cry of governance and migration management for years: abolition of rights and storage in the former colonies is sold as 'humane'.Now also from the Greens.Caution: Anyone who denies others “the right to have rights” (H. Arendt) is denying themselves and saying goodbye to the political community.
The poor Greens!Or: lots of enemies, lots of honor?In any case, the general bashing of the Green Party may not have as much to do with content as many people think.Sure, when it comes to environmental policy they really put their money where their mouth is, but every party should do that, it's just so nice to blame the Greens for that.When it comes to migration policy, the Greens don't really play along with the lying phrase-mongering from Scholz to Söder, but who is that supposed to disappoint?Ultimately, regardless of content, the Greens are simply the general whipping boy.What Kretschmann says here may be correct in detail, but is generally wrong.More green self-denial than in Hesse, for example, is hardly possible, it has been of no use.If pragmatism turns into mendacity, then there is simply no longer any reason to vote for the Greens.The Germans have allowed themselves to be persuaded that migration is the most important problem, and above all they have allowed themselves to be persuaded that deterrence helps. You don't have to take part in this self-deception, even if it means losing support.Credibility is more important than pragmatism.Of course, you shouldn't give in to the romanticism of your own base.This applies above all to the gender excesses, which may have driven away more voters than the heating law and migration combined.
Unusually clear words for a Green.
Many younger people and some older people did not vote for the Greens in Hesse because they did not want to support the A49 being built through the Danni while the Greens were in power.Green politics while the activists are being torn from the trees is not well received.The fact that this wasn't even mentioned in the text speaks volumes.
The unspeakably stupid nuclear power plant exit falls on the Greens' feet at an untimely one.So easy.I predicted it 15 months ago.It is and remains the warning sign.
The Greens already have a problem with mediation: in the 40 years before 2021, they were only involved in government for 7 years, and then only as “waiters”.If Mr. Kretschmann is now celebrating that Mr. Habeck bought gas from Qatar, then he is wasting the chance to point out that it is a scandal that this was even necessary.That's how it's been going on in Germany for ages: the conservatives are allowed to sleep through reforms for decades and the supposedly "progressives" have to clean up at least a little bit of dirt in the short interim phases, but expect to be celebrated for it and forget to at least mention the ideals again .I'm afraid Germany won't be able to cope with one or two more cycles of this.We would need a coalition like after 1969;There hasn't been so much real reform since!
Once again a good man in the wrong party...
@Donald Duck Or the other way around... 🤔
The well-known wisdom applies that you want to be able to afford the profound (green) transformation of society, but (probably) you don't have to.Given the currently polar orientation of the Union, which is led by a dominant group of men, voters from the conservative milieu are likely to be particularly receptive to the far-reaching message of the mandatory upcoming reforms, as they do not see Winfried Kretschmann as an attractive figure, but as a successful real politician.Special people have played their own role in parties in the past, such as Gustav Heinemann as a pacifist or Rita Süssmuth as an advocate for gender equality.At the real power border of Merz, Rhine, Günther and Wüst, with regard to the pragmatism of green politics in Hesse and now, for example, NRW, it will become clear where the intersections or exclusions will lie in the future for voters with analogous ideas.The shift to the right has become a malignant pacesetter.The Greens also have to defend themselves against media-hyped campaigns and enemy images that obviously do not correspond to the genuinely Christian.canon of values./heimatkunde.boell....ng-to-the-right?ampAs a source:"The political scientist Karl-Rudolf-Korte emphasized on ZDF that the political center bears the responsibility for responding appropriately to the radicalization of the fringes. In addition to the tone and vocabulary, one must propose one's own solutions and "dissolve fears of transformation with optimism." And further: “The bashing of the Greens is not part of it.”..."From deutschlandfunk.de"A declaration of war on Adenauer's rearmament courseWhen Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, bypassing the cabinet, offered the Western Allies German troops for a Western European army in 1950, he sparked heated debates.His Interior Minister Gustav Heinemann (CDU) resigned and left the party."
"The fact that we are being thrown out of government in Hesse, of all places, with a highly pragmatic state association is extremely bitter. And that has to wake us up as a party."
Yes, I think so too!But certainly not in the way Mr. Kretschmann imagines.I'm thinking more of Antje Vollmer's farewell letter...
"We have to build wind turbines, we have to put photovoltaics on the roofs (...)"
That's the way it is.Unfortunately, there is no increase in wind energy in BW under the Kretsch government.And you can also look for photovoltaics on state-owned buildings for a long time in the country.The craftsmen are probably missing...
Oh dear, dear Mr. Kretschmann,
“Let it take effect” = think about how we could continue now."It's about us developing a copyable model of climate-friendly prosperity and successful, sustainable business..." = finally giving everyone the opportunity to earn money with renewable energy.Then it runs all by itself without any regulatory policy.Because the point is, "We have now introduced important things in terms of climate policy, and what is crucial is that we don't get bogged down in the small details, but rather tackle the things with strength that really make a difference."
"And when it comes to climate policy, we have to be clear about our goals but open about our paths. It's no use saying: But science tells us that this is very urgent."Have you already given up, Mr. Kretschmann?According to the government, the open path currently means going back to fossils and experimenting a bit with renewables.No, we don't have to wait for innovations either, because the solutions for using renewables are on the table.My impression is rather that you and your party allow yourself to be driven far too much and too easily by the FDP and the SPD.In the search for the possible compromise, you lose your goals and the speed shown to the scientist.
Yes, become pragmatic again and win back your regular voters, for example by stopping an unnecessary excess of LNG terminals on Rügen.With the money you save, you could, for example, almost give tenants a balcony system.This allows you to achieve partial independence from electricity purchases while eliminating any inflation and war risks.Finally ensure that Rosatom is no longer allowed to supply nuclear fuel.
My impression is getting stronger and stronger: your party has been taken by the hand by the coalition members and is now running along well-trodden paths until the next flood of rain comes and washes everyone into the valley.
Extremely beneficial from the gentleman from BaWü.Politics without enemy images.
The Greens are currently losing because the CDU and SPD are luring difficult answers with simple answers.Sitting out the future in favor of short-term electoral success.Hopefully they don't keep their promises and reform anyway.Because our children's children will have to pay dearly for another 4 years of reform backlog and sitting out the energy transition...
@mwinkl02 And if politicians continue to act on the reality and problems of the population and want to transform by hook or by crook without a coherent concept, then our children's children will also pay dearly.Then they pay not only through climate change, but also with a broken economy and a divided society.
If society wants easy answers first, then you can't rule against them with hard answers.Of course we have to become more climate-friendly, but as Kretschmann says, this has to be socially sensible and must not lead to a loss of prosperity, otherwise climate policy is pointless because no one will follow suit.
@Walterism But there will be losses in prosperity anyway.An ever-growing economy simply cannot exist in a limited area.Therefore, they lie to their own pockets.The affluent society has so far been at the expense of the people in the global south, who are becoming poorer as a result.This accelerates migration.But just keep dreaming of limitless prosperity
@Ramelow Cathrin “The affluent society so far has been at the expense of the people in the global south who are becoming poorer as a result”
I feel compelled to question this narrative.
Almost all countries have recorded economic growth over decades.
www.worldometers.i...dp/gdp-by-country/(If you click on the individual countries, a graphic with GDP development over the last 3 decades appears)
On what basis do you claim that our prosperity comes at the expense of others (in the sense that others become poorer)?And if people in the global south become people - why because of our prosperity and not because of mismanagement on site, or because conflicts break out, or because rapid population growth outweighs the increase in economic output, so that there is hardly any improvement per capita?
@Socrates Correction: when people in the global south get poorer
Chapeau, Prime Minister!I haven't been a supporter of the Greens for a long time, but in the current political situation in our country it's good to hear so much realism, pragmatism and confidence from a Green.Thanks.
@Nikolai Nikitin But Kretsche won't hide Niki's applause behind the mirror!Gellewelle
In short - if you're Old Franconian - let's open it up!Gelle.Some are already their own grandfathers at 18!Wool - 🙀🥳🥱 -
@Lowandorder Ah, yes ... Kretsche marked from the left, ... but the assessor stinks too much of Rrääächts ... what a pity again ;-)
Still a great man!I share Kretschmann's views on many points, and I am pleasantly surprised that many of the positions I have represented in the past agree with Kretschmann's.There is a lot of criticism of the person from the left, to which one can answer: success proves him right!
There are people who were favorable to the Greens (and others...), but in contrast to them, they identified early on the problem areas that arose from the favorite topics of the "moralists (not my choice of words)".The experience that naming problems (e.g. different understandings of integration between newcomers and locals, differences in the image of women, ...) in the context of political debate consistently results in social punishment of people in the form of defamation in a wide variety of forms (naming of Migration issues exposes hidden Nazis, "Sharia is not German law" exposes the obvious Islamophobia, ...) in order to avoid the substantive debate, leads to them now refusing a dialogue with the Greens out of frustration or hurt.Without a public reassessment and appreciation of this early assessment of the problem by people who are actually like-minded, they will continue to avoid the Greens.They will miss these votes.
More of Kretschman's pragmatism would be good not only for the Greens but for the entire country.
"When the Green Youth now talks about isolation..."
...then she is simply right, Mr. Kretschmann.They serve the right-wing narrative that migration is the problem, but the effects of decades of austerity policy are the problem:
"What the obsession with immigration does, de Haas observes, is make it easier to turn questions about social policy at home -- from stagnating wages to a lack of affordable housing -- into a debate about an external threat to the nation." (How Migration Works, by Hein de Haas), in [1]
@tomás zerolo German total debt:
2022: 2,368 billion, of which the federal government spends 1,620 billion. The federal government is pushing ahead with a mountain of debt that is 3.5 times the federal budget.
As of mid-2023: 2,417 billion.In 2022 alone, the federal government incurred 71.9 billion in new debt.€645 per nose.
Interest now costs almost 40 billion a year.
What austerity policy are you talking about?Please, please, explain it to me!
PS: Have you ever asked yourself how much of the over €28,000 in debt you owe you will pay off before you die?And how much do their children and grandchildren have to pay off?
@tomás zerolo That's not a right-wing narrative but rather deeply anchored in the middle.Even many on the left are beginning to recognize the problems of migration policy.
@lord lord Ach was! ©️ Vagel Bülow - 🙀🥳👹 -
below—— service - colors & blind —lord, also 'lord, master', col.loverd, Englishhlāford 'lord, ruler, master of the house, husband', actually 'the lord whose bread one eats, brotherr, protector', to English.And that in a double pack
@tomás zerolo join me - disfigured beyond recognition - double K-embossed - this won't go away without a trace!Yell - 🙀🥳👹 -
There is always something to improve: for example the percentage calculation of the membership fee for the Greens.I thought about joining, but I didn't because I had a good job at the time and would have had to pay way too much per month.So you don't get good people into the party because they often have a long education and have good jobs: there's a percentage that equals so much money that you would have to leave the church to make up for it.So every head should pay the same number then the Greens will get smart people again..
@Timelot The idea is called solidarity.The point is that those who earn more also finance a higher proportion of the party's work.The Greens have no problem with not having enough well-earning members.Rather, as in many parties, they are unfortunately overrepresented.
@Timelot The party would then get even more members who have no financial worries but are not prepared to make a fair contribution.
The main beneficiaries of the achievements of green policy are higher earners and heirs who can direct capital into subsidized investments or abroad, people who profit professionally from the energy transition - often in state employment -, people who own their own home and subsidies for solar systems , heaters and wall boxes for electric cars.
They're smart people, but selfish people with public influence harm everyone else.
@Timelot "so much money that you would have to leave the church to make up for it."Well, that would be a good measure!What are you waiting for?
@Timelot I'm more used to distrusting people who so confidently talk about themselves as a smart person...
Mine Sieving Mesh Pop singer Gil Ofarim has admitted to making up the anti-Semitism accusation.His lie harms the fight against hatred of Jews.